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| funkyass |
Posted on 20-09-03, 17:12
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Post: #159 of 202
Since: 11-01-18 Last post: 667 days Last view: 22 days |
The main problem is that nvidia's 2000 and AMDs 5000 series both were meh. the 1060 6GB was an amazing upgrade, the 2060 and the 16 series not so much. If AMD is smart, they only announce their 3060 competitor, and it better be cheaper, even if it only matches a 2080 it'll fly. |
| wertigon |
Posted on 20-09-04, 23:34 (revision 1)
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Post: #141 of 205
Since: 11-24-18 Last post: 162 days Last view: 1 day |
Posted by creaothceann The SATA ports take up precious space and chipset ports that could better be used for other things. Like an extra m.2 or PCIe slot, a USB-C internal header or similar. To be clear, I'm not expecting SATA to disappear tomorrow, but the port is simply too slow to stay relevant in the long run. It also wouldn't surprise me if you in the future connect SATA drives through the m.2 or PCIe ports through an adapter cable that delivers both power and data traffic from the motherboard. If you really need them, 4x SATA port PCIe cards exist for less than $30 too. Mechanical harddrives are pretty much on the way out; SSDs are getting so cheap and common these days, it is inevitable that mechs will get the boot. Sure, a 16 TB mech sounds like a good idea until you realise the random seek times and data transfer speeds on such a harddrive are atrociously slow and severely hinders your work. Case in point, just going from mechanical to SSD I managed to build my embedded Linux project in only 3 hours instead of the usual 5. After that I realised Mechs are garbage for most modern workflows. :) [Edit] was thinking about something like this, but as a single unit: https://www.amazon.com/SATA-NGFF-Adapter-Power-Cable/dp/B01FE8NKC2 [/edit] |
| creaothceann |
Posted on 20-09-05, 11:33
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 Post: #290 of 456 Since: 10-29-18 Last post: 51 days Last view: 3 hours |
Posted by BearOso They're also competing with the new consoles. Posted by BearOso Posted by wertigon I'm thinking of archival, not daily workloads. Mechanical harddrives are still relevant for NASes and doing backups. It also makes sense to move large game installations to a mechanical drive when you're not playing them. My current setup: Super Famicom ("2/1/3" SNS-CPU-1CHIP-02) → SCART → OSSC → StarTech USB3HDCAP → AmaRecTV 3.10 |
| tomman |
Posted on 20-09-05, 14:02
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Dinosaur
 Post: #765 of 1318 Since: 10-30-18 Last post: 3 days Last view: 3 hours |
I'm not sure about you guys, but I'm not really trusting my long-term, offline backups to what is essentially tiny, tiny capacitors just yet. Backups ARE still a thing, yo. On consoles and "cloud-connected" If anything, I would want a revival of optical media, if only because of simplicity. Too bad Blu-Ray died on the PC space mostly because of DRM and greed. Where are those 1TB "holographic" discs we were supposed to be using to store our backups nowadays!? Licensed Pirate® since 2006, 100% Buttcoin™-free, enemy of All Things JavaScript™ |
| wertigon |
Posted on 20-09-05, 22:42
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Post: #142 of 205
Since: 11-24-18 Last post: 162 days Last view: 1 day |
I just don't see any use case for a SATA port on a desktop motherboard anymore. The only thing the mechs got over SSDs these days are dirt-cheap storage and long-term reliability, making them an ideal replacement for tapes. So for long-term read-storage, they are... Okay-ish. You can fit more data on magnetic tape which makes that still the best backup medium in terms of bang-for-the-buck, but if it is a rarely used storage medium, HDDs are actually a more reliable long-term storage. Thing is, the only place they make any sense anymore is in a home NAS. * Data center, you can get a fancy 100 TB 3.5" SSD that costs a small fortune. However, storage wise one 4u server filled with 100TB drives can replace an entire rack of 4u servers, meaning you will only need 1/6 as many servers. * As for webservers etc, most run on database machines with a shitton of RAM for speed and very little storage. * Workstation, well, is all about fast storage these days. Movie projects? HDD is simply too slow. Same with music projects and graphics. And programming also speeds up build times considerably going with SSDs. * Laptops are going completely m.2 interface, though it is slow going. * Home/gaming PC, yes if you want some cheap storage. OTOH, in my opinion you really should invest in a 3.5" USB mech enclosure (external harddrive) in that case. That way you have an easy access to it regardless of interface. Or, you could just use... * NAS, in which case you don't really care about speed you just want a place to store dem 1337 W4rez and Pr0n collections. Here HDDs make really good sense. That said, if you already got the spinners by all means use them. It's just that for modern systems the SATA port is pretty much obsolete at this point. |
| CaptainJistuce |
Posted on 20-09-05, 23:47 (revision 1)
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Custom title here
 Post: #919 of 1164 Since: 10-30-18 Last post: 70 days Last view: 8 hours |
Ain't nothin' wrong with the disk. I am afirm believer that a flash drive to boot off and a disk for bulk storage is an ideal setup. Videos, music, and large --- In UTF-16, where available. --- |
| kode54 |
Posted on 20-09-06, 00:02
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 Post: #80 of 105 Since: 11-13-19 Last post: 1468 days Last view: 1468 days |
The only moving parts in my current desktop are fans and the optical drive. Three SSDs, though, but only one of them in use by a given OS at a time, and the third is hosting a Fedora install I don't use any more. A single M.2 slot requires 4 PCIe lanes and often two SATA ports. All of the SATA headers on the board probably require the same. So you lose 4-6 drive interfaces, in favor of a single M.2 slot. And no M.2 slots interface to optical drives, but I guess most people don't care about those any more, either. Some boards even have 3 M.2 slots, one of them pre-populated with a WiFi/BT interface card. And I don't think they're going to get rid of the SATA connectors just to add a fourth M.2 slot. And remember, you can always stuff an M.2 slot or two into a PCIe slot interface, too. But you'll probably have to give up one of your precious x16 slots, since most motherboards don't include x4 slots. |
| CaptainJistuce |
Posted on 20-09-06, 01:13 (revision 1)
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Custom title here
Post: #920 of 1164 Since: 10-30-18 Last post: 70 days Last view: 8 hours |
The SATA ports lost when you use an M.2 slot are because their controller was connected to those PCIE lines the M.2 drive uses, and most systems are desperately starved for PCIE lines. My system has an internal hard disk, an internal optical drive, fans, and an external one-drive toy NAS. The NAS disk holds music and videos, the internal disk holds "productivity applications", and the flash holds OS and frequently-used programs. --- In UTF-16, where available. --- |
| Nicholas Steel |
Posted on 20-09-06, 10:16
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Post: #371 of 426
Since: 10-30-18 Last post: 506 days Last view: 21 days |
Here's my understanding of what Direct Storage is (expect the technology to hit Windows next year): https://old.reddit.com/r/hardware/comments/imx49r/toms_hardware_nvidia_details_rtx_30series_core/g43x01l/ AMD Ryzen 3700X | MSI Gamer Geforce 1070Ti 8GB | 16GB 3600MHz DDR4 RAM | ASUS Crosshair VIII Hero (WiFi) Motherboard | Windows 10 x64 |
| wertigon |
Posted on 20-09-06, 10:27
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Post: #143 of 205
Since: 11-24-18 Last post: 162 days Last view: 1 day |
Posted by CaptainJistuce Yes indeed - if you only have something like a 128 GB or 256 GB fast NVME drive, I completely agree with you. Thing is, you're not stuck with those small drives anymore. While drives like the $1300 8TB Sabrent Rocket isn't affordable by modern standards, the $229 ADATA XPG SX8200 Pro is (though, I agree, on the high end). 2TB is still plenty of storage. That said, SATA ports will be around for a long time, but I'm expecting them to be more and more phased out of motherboards in favor of m.2. If you still need optical drives, there are internal and external USB available. If you need tonnes of cheap drive storage there are controller cards available with 4-10 ports, and that only costs around $20. So this change will happen pretty soon. Then again, IDE ports took quite a while to die out, so again, not happening overnight. |
| tomman |
Posted on 20-09-06, 14:42 (revision 1)
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Dinosaur
Post: #766 of 1318 Since: 10-30-18 Last post: 3 days Last view: 3 hours |
My prediction: SATA ports will still be going strong in 2030 in over half of the planet populated by not-wealthy people. I still saw new PCs shipping with floppy drives as late as 2007, and PATA ports on motherboards as late as 2014 (albeit behind PATA-to-SATA bridges - ditto for the very last PATA drives ever made which resembled early SATA drives by the use of a bridge chip too). Also: what stops spinning rust from switching to NVMe? That was what SATA Express was for. But then, I only saw WD demoing SATA Express/NVMe HDDs, and none of those shipped anyway. And, why people is so hellbent on killing SATA plugs solely over physical dimensions!? It isn't like motherboards are so space-starved - SATA plugs are so tiny you can shoehorn those nearly everywhere, unlike the monstrosity of PATA connectors. Not everybody is using a RPi or a portless razor-thin Mac, y'know... Licensed Pirate® since 2006, 100% Buttcoin™-free, enemy of All Things JavaScript™ |
| funkyass |
Posted on 20-09-06, 19:13 (revision 1)
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Post: #160 of 202
Since: 11-01-18 Last post: 667 days Last view: 22 days |
They want to get rid of sata not because of the space it takes on the board, but the +5v and 3.3v it needs from the power supply. Intel at least wants to push a standard that only has 12 volts coming from the power supply, and have the motherboard do any needed voltage conversion. that means you need molex and sata power sockets on the MB... So you are probably gonna see more USB sata enclosures. Sata express failed since it launched at the same time as the m.2 and nvme - both standards needing exactly 0 cables to work. |
| wertigon |
Posted on 20-09-06, 21:51 (revision 1)
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Post: #144 of 205
Since: 11-24-18 Last post: 162 days Last view: 1 day |
Posted by tomman Not contesting that. Not-wealthy are usually getting hand-me-down tech, nothing wrong with that. But for the latest AM7 / LGA3151 motherboards, I expect the SATA port to be phased out on most boards. Posted by tomman Yes, and this is what also will happen to the SATA ports. If there is barely no demand for SATA, and the demand *will* start to dry up during the AM5 socket generation, then there is no point in providing it. Posted by tomman ITX motherboards and computers are a thing, so is having a clean desktop. You have no idea how nice a desk looks like with a sub-10 liter case on there. :) And given that the HDDs have a maximum transfer capacity of 120 MB/s or so, there is no need for a faster port. A 20TB drive would take two full days to fill up with constant writing. Heck, even a 100GB game would take at least 15 minutes to read from the drive. Spinners are on their last legs, and have only a single advantage left against faster drives; dirt-cheap bang for the buck storage capacity. Other than that SSDs are simply better in pretty much every single way you can think of. So enjoy spinning rusts while you can, unfortunately they will disappear from stores in a few years (though 20 years from now, plenty will still be in use). |
| CaptainJistuce |
Posted on 20-09-06, 22:21
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Custom title here
Post: #921 of 1164 Since: 10-30-18 Last post: 70 days Last view: 8 hours |
Posted by wertigonI need more than 2T of storage. --- In UTF-16, where available. --- |
| kode54 |
Posted on 20-09-06, 23:30
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Post: #81 of 105 Since: 11-13-19 Last post: 1468 days Last view: 1468 days |
Cool, Intel is trying to assert their relevancy again. Here I am, using a computer built a year ago, with a seven year old power supply, using an even older standard than that. I'll replace some/any of that when it dies, just like when I was forced to get this upgrade. |
| CaptainJistuce |
Posted on 20-09-07, 00:17
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Custom title here
Post: #922 of 1164 Since: 10-30-18 Last post: 70 days Last view: 8 hours |
I get why ATX12VO exists. It makes sense, but it sucks in the short term. Just like the AT-ATX transition did, but at least we don't need new cases too this time. --- In UTF-16, where available. --- |
| Nicholas Steel |
Posted on 20-09-07, 07:06
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Post: #372 of 426
Since: 10-30-18 Last post: 506 days Last view: 21 days |
Posted by wertigonHum, more like around 200MB/s unless you're going for a budget/5400RPM drive. AMD Ryzen 3700X | MSI Gamer Geforce 1070Ti 8GB | 16GB 3600MHz DDR4 RAM | ASUS Crosshair VIII Hero (WiFi) Motherboard | Windows 10 x64 |
| creaothceann |
Posted on 20-09-07, 08:50
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Post: #292 of 456 Since: 10-29-18 Last post: 51 days Last view: 3 hours |
Posted by wertigon On the desk? That would a bit difficult for me... My current setup: Super Famicom ("2/1/3" SNS-CPU-1CHIP-02) → SCART → OSSC → StarTech USB3HDCAP → AmaRecTV 3.10 |
| creaothceann |
Posted on 20-09-07, 15:15
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Post: #293 of 456 Since: 10-29-18 Last post: 51 days Last view: 3 hours |
Posted by CaptainJistuce <jest> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFUveNmvjhE </jest> My current setup: Super Famicom ("2/1/3" SNS-CPU-1CHIP-02) → SCART → OSSC → StarTech USB3HDCAP → AmaRecTV 3.10 |
| wertigon |
Posted on 20-09-07, 16:33 (revision 2)
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Post: #145 of 205
Since: 11-24-18 Last post: 162 days Last view: 1 day |
Posted by CaptainJistuce Don't we all. :) I put all the Warez and pr0n in my NAS, 2TB for my daily driver system is plenty of extra room. And where is this NAS? On my desk actually. Heart of the build is a 17L U-NAS NSC-810A and I could load it up with 8x8 TB of storage, though currently only got 4x6TB in there (whom used to sit in a few workstations @ work, but they upgraded to SSDs across the board - investment paid off in two weeks). Posted by creaothceann You'd be surprised how many are opting for small builds these days. There are quite a few small *and* performant ones around. How about a nice 8L case, or a nice 7L cube? If you want to go *really* small, you can even go for a 4 liter gaming monster (2070 Super, 3950x) or why not give mommy a 2L computer mounted to the back of her monitor? Not judging or anything, just trying to give some use cases why I like to do SFF these days, and why I think the SATA port will disappear. My use cases are not everyones use case though. |
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